TVP is a fraud and here's more evidence.

So I got a private message from a dickhead who I specifically told not to give me any private messages.  The full text is available at the end of this post, but I'll be quoting the relevant part as I go along.

"The main topic. Our idea of an economic system has ways of determining value and cost. You may have been talking to people who weren't informed enough to KNOW how to explain this to you." 
Indeed, and that includes everyone who's every tried to explain it to me, but they're all sure it works, despite not being able to describe it.  What does that tell you?  Incidentally you're in that group too.

"They will just send you to "learn more", or give up on you too soon. Or like me, they just couldn't explain it within 500 characters. This is why a private message was necessary."
  No a PM was necessary because you didn't want to get caught out lying.  There are many other ways you can send a more than 500 character answer, for a start by multiple comments, blog posts, need I go on?

"So how do we determine values and costs in an RBE? Pretty much directly."
  And what does that mean?  How do you determine the value of something "directly"?  Value isn't a physical thing you can directly measure.
"How much of the material do we have, and how much do we need? Can we replace it with alternatives, can we recycle it, how does it decay, how does it replenish - all those parameters are taken into account. A system of input-output mechanisms finds those parameters out, of course with the help of resarchers and scientists all over the world."
  An answer that vague isn't an answer.  Saying you "all these parameters will be taken into account" tells me nothing.  For instance if a resource replenishs and another doesn't how do you take that into account when determining resource use?  If the unreplenishing resource is used you can't use it for something else in the future, how do you determine which use is greater, given they occur in different time frames?  Are you saying that you directly compare the use of every single combination of resources that could be used to produce one good and that you do that for every good?  If so the programmings going to be harder than doing EVERYTHING the economy currently does.  Basically you just said that the system finds the answers to the question I'm asking with the help of "scientists and researchers".  This is an assertion not an answer.  All you're saying is "Smart guys will figure it out, with data".  Fuck you.  This is not an answer and you're evil for pretending it is.

"But once a mechanism is understood - it can be automated."
  You can automatically determine what sort of plays people like?  You're talking serious AI here.

"So what kinds of materials am i talking about? Copper, iron, wood, water, gold, natural diamonds - whatever it is, its available amounts are constantly tracked. The need for those materials is also tracked - what do we need them for, how much and at what frequency? How fast does the material replenish - wood can be regrown, minerals can't be. How plentiful is the material on our planet? There's less gold there than iron. And how much of the material is needed?"
  Did you just assume that the only relevant resource is natural resources?  Because if you did you're so fucking stupid it's unbelievable.  There is capital and labor too you moron.
  But let's restrict the criticism to how your system will handle NATURAL resource use, because that's both the easiest resource use to handle and the least critical to manage correctly.  Societies with limited natural resource do better than socieites with limited labor resources or capital.  How much of a particular natural resource exists in the world is a minor part of what you need to know about it.  If a billion tonnes of copper exist 15 km deep what does that mean for your system?  Well it means if you expend enough resources you can access that copper.  But which resources?  Well your technicians could calculate thousands of combinations of resources you could use to access it.  Which one you should use depends on how valuable each resource used is, but to know that you have to complete your moronic inventory and compare the supply of these resources with how much will be used.  But this is part of both the supply of copper and how much of other resources will be used, so you can't know. The only way to know would be to list every single possible way to get the copper, liste every single possible way to get the resources to get the copper, then compare every one of these combinations to every single other possible combination of resources to do something else. It can't be done, particularly when we consider the value problem.

"This is a big question - how does our system find out what it needs to run, how does it track the people's needs and wants. In very short, the gathering and measuring systems are cybernated - integrated - with systems that track needs and consumption. You need a new oven? You order a new one, or pick it up at a distribution center - THAT's the input, and every person on the planet creates it all the time while they consume. And the systems, like a living being's nervous system, communicate with each other in real time, constantly making sure that supply meets demand."

How are needs tracked?  I know how wants are tracked but how do you determine what is needed and what would just be nice to have?  This is a critical question, unless you're assuming you can supply even the most trivial want without compromising any other need or want you need to quantify value.  Simply saying that I want a new oven doesn't tell you how much I want it, let alone that I "need" it, however that is defined.  There is no way in TVP to distinguish between a request that really matters to the person and will give great value and a request that is not important and will not give great value.  Your system doesn't determine supply or demand, in the economic sense.  It determines what people want, but not how much they're prepared to give up to get it.  It determines what is produced but not the value of what could have been produced if it hadn't been.  TVP has to decide which requests to grant, or it's just a fairy tale.  If it's a fairy tale and it's being presented as a real solution that's evil.

So now let's deal with the morality directly.  You claim " I HAD MY DOUBTS about the movement! But it did convince me that its goals are very pure and good.".  What convinced you?  That they keep saying they're goals are pure and good?  Lot's of people say that.  The communists said that.  TVP is another bunch of scientistic assholes who claim that private property needs to be abolished and everything tracked by a central mechanism.  If they are different from communists in a fundamental way I don't see it.  It's communism plus robots as Stef said.  What makes me think they're evil is that they don't tell me how they would handle opportunity costs despite repeated requests.  Considering this is something that needs to be determined before anyone could rationally support their system it's a dead giveaway that their real system is evil.  If they were really intent on what they claimed they would openly publish their opportunity costs and values system not lie about it.  And they have been lying, as have you.  What they describe as a system is not a system, it's the requirements for one.  Saying "Smart men will figure it out with data" is not an answer and nobody sane would regard it as one.  They are being insincere, and that is only necessary to protect evil.  Note that I'm including you here as one of the evil ones.
 Now fuck off you little shithead or I'll REALLY humilitate you by going into the capital/labor problems your system has.


Here is the full text of his message.
"Hello!

I've decided to go out of my way and send YOU a private message :)  (edit - looks like youtube changed some things, so this will be sort of public - even better)  I guess as the one representing the minority, and all this time claiming moral high ground, i should reach out. And since i had some time, i've decided to go ahead and write you. Maybe i'll explain something to you about the venus project and resource based economies that you didn't know yet. And maybe you'll explain to me, what that moral hazard of our movement is supposed to be.

I will be honest, i understand our movement pretty well. I've debated philosophers, engineers, young and old about it. I haven't been with it from the beginning, but i've discovered it quite early, when the second zeitgeist movie was made. I HAD MY DOUBTS about the movement! But it did convince me that its goals are very pure and good. I'll also say this, i have my disagreements with Jacque Fresco, so i consider myself more a zeitgeister than a venus projecter, in brief, we seem to be a bit more democratic with our ideas. But the same broad principles apply to TZM and TVP. So i'm pretty convinced that we're the "good guys" :)  And i would be very interested if you could explain what's morally bad about our movement, or what Stefan thinks is morally bad. I honestly don't know. I've reached dead-ends with people concerning the plausibility of our plans, but very rarely has it ended with people just concluding that we're "evil" or "bad" - it mostly happens from people who very stubbornly think we're the new communists. But most people who take at least a bit of time will see, we're very different. So explain if you wish, what's morally bad about our ideas. I think we're morally probably a bit above most other similar movements, but that's just my opinion!

The main topic. Our idea of an economic system has ways of determining value and cost. You may have been talking to people who weren't informed enough to KNOW how to explain this to you. They will just send you to "learn more", or give up on you too soon. Or like me, they just couldn't explain it within 500 characters. This is why a private message was necessary.

So how do we determine values and costs in an RBE? Pretty much directly. How much of the material do we have, and how much do we need? Can we replace it with alternatives, can we recycle it, how does it decay, how does it replenish - all those parameters are taken into account. A system of input-output mechanisms finds those parameters out, of course with the help of resarchers and scientists all over the world. But once a mechanism is understood - it can be automated. So what kinds of materials am i talking about? Copper, iron, wood, water, gold, natural diamonds - whatever it is, its available amounts are constantly tracked. The need for those materials is also tracked - what do we need them for, how much and at what frequency? How fast does the material replenish - wood can be regrown, minerals can't be. How plentiful is the material on our planet? There's less gold there than iron. And how much of the material is needed? This is a big question - how does our system find out what it needs to run, how does it track the people's needs and wants. In very short, the gathering and measuring systems are cybernated - integrated - with systems that track needs and consumption. You need a new oven? You order a new one, or pick it up at a distribution center - THAT's the input, and every person on the planet creates it all the time while they consume. And the systems, like a living being's nervous system, communicate with each other in real time, constantly making sure that supply meets demand.

I guess you could have many sub-questions, and i'd be glad to answer them. Go in detail, ask specifics, i'm sure i can be of help. Just show me that you're really interested in this, and not just enjoying the bashing of those who think too much out of the box ;)  I really enjoy Stefan's shows and agree... i think 95% of the time with him, i strongly believe we should join forces and work together toward a better future, instead of arguing. But for that, understanding needs to be made. Stefan and Peter failed at that, unfortunately... so let us be better, what do you say?
Looking forward to your reply - peace"