Because dumbshit, there is no other way to measure them, at least none that you or I know of.
Idiot : "I've shown you examples of how we'd "measure" those costs in an RBE,"
No fucktard liar you haven't.
Idiot : "And stop building strawmen. We don't assume infinite resources, we say that resources on the planet are finite in pretty much the first sentence when we describe a resource based economy to people."
Yes TVP does assume infinite resources, it has no mechanism for limiting anything liar fucktard and I didn't strawman. The fact that you SAY something means nothing, because you're a liar. Me: "So then you don't tell them what they're doing is consuming too much resources and you run out of resources. You lose."Idiot : "Learn how to read, i said "there is no forcing people...", not that there's nothing at all suggesting people not to overconsume. "
Yeah dumbshit, that's my point.
Idiot : "And another thing, people don't normally overconsume. Only when they feel the pressures of society and are conditioned to overconsume, when being ABLE to overconsume is a status symbol. All that is gone in a RBE."
Bullshit asshole, people have overconsumed when given the opportunity in pretty much every society and your claim that it will disappear in RBE is just your moronic wishful thinking.Me: "No dumbshit, none of that will work because you don't have a system to assign values to resources."
Idiot: "What?? You... you mean there will be no common sense, education, no wish to contribute, no interest in wellbeing, just because there is no monetary value attached to things? Wow. You just... no, nonono. Prove some of what you say, seriously. You make outrageous claims like this, you back your words up."
As I said "Common sense won't tell you that what you're consuming is worth less than what could be made out of it. Nor will education without a means of measuring value which you don't have.".
Look shithead it's not my job to repeat everything to you like you're a fucking dog that needs to have a command repeated 30 times before he gets it.
Me "Common sense won't tell you that what you're consuming is worth less than what could be made out of it. Nor will education without a means of measuring value which you don't have."Idiot : "I've explained to you that we have a means to measure VALUE, just not a MONETARY value... Just return to the first question and show me why exactly you believe money is so important."Yes dumbshit, I get that. I get everything you tell me the first time, because as retarded as it is, it's simple. Common sense doesn't measure value. You can't tell how much someone wants or needs something by "common sense".
Me: "Learn to read dumbshit. A vote can't measure how much you want something. A vote simply says you want it, not that you want it enough to sacrifice something else."Idiot : "Aaahh... an example then. You survey a group of people and ask them how much, on a scale of 1 to 10, they want something. Done. I think i was clear about this when i said there would be surveys."
Note that you just abandoned "common sense" as a measurement of value. So dickhead would you like to admit that you were full of shit on that point? If you don't in your next reply, don't make one. I don't see why I should have to put up with your shit if you don't admit when you're wrong. In any case what stops someone setting all their priorites to 10 and getting everything they want? What do these values even mean? Does it mean that if you rate something as a 10 it's worth 2 5s? How do you compare people's values if they don't vary their scores as much as each other. Hey I've got an idea, everyone has a limited number their scores can total. The system's success is determined by how much the total of everyone's scores is satisfied. There's just one problem, that's money.
Me: "Great and how are they told what they have to do without to get what they want? If they want, say a new bridge between the town of Ketchikan, Alaska and Gravina Island how are you going to tell them what they can't have if they build it? There is no mechanism for doing this in TVP. In fact TVP can be seen as being specifically designed to avoid the question.""A survey doesn't establish priorities, it establishes what people would do if it could be done without compromising any other goal. This information is worthless."Idiot: "OK so if people want a new bridge to be built next, they will have to understand that the construction operators will be busy for a time, and that other projects will have to come after the one they think is a priority."
No dumbfuck, in RBE the builders don't decide one resources allocation. They don't just decide that they'll use thousands of tonnes of materials, fuel, electricity on their own. It's all allocated by computer remember? God dumbfuck it's hard enough to explain economics without explaining your moronic system.
"The costs of such things in an RBE are measured just as the name suggests... in resources. And in time, obviously. The people can be given no more than there is to give, and no faster than those things can be produced."
There are millions of resources dumbfuck, you can't simply say "they're measured in resources", how do you compare using 1,000 tonnes of coal with 500 of wheat? Or 10 megawatt hours versus 2 hours of the time of skilled programmer? If you want to measure you need ONE UNIT you loathsome, retarded, loser shithead. Learn the basics of fucking science before you talk again.
Me: "No dipshit, asking people whether they want something doesn't measure value. All it measures is whether value is positive."Idiot: "You must really think before you write. "
Fuck off, you're the one who is incapable of thinking.
Idiot: But as i already said, you CAN measure value with surveys...
Yeah but you're a shithead liar.
"when is the last time you've had a company survey how satisfied you were with their services? Well, they had specific questions, like "how satisfied are you with our delivery time?" and you had many options to answer, like "not pleased at all" all the way up to "very pleased". Life isn't in black and white... and so aren't economies, and so isn't the RBE... too many people think there's just capitalism and communism, and that's it. Things aren't that simple... and that's why i understand why RBE's are difficult to grasp. But we'll get there.
Yeah dumbfuck that's not good enough. What does "very satisfied" mean in terms of how much I'd give up to have something? You don't know fucktard so stop pretending you do. Businesses use HOW MUCH YOU'RE PREPARED TO PAY, to measure value, because it involves a choice and choice is the only way to compare values. You can't compare values unless someone gives up one for another.
Me: "No there isn't. Unless you mean literally needs like "This person will die if they don't get this.". But unless you're going to have everyone live just over starvation you're going to have to determine a lot more than that."Idiot; "This is exactly what i mean! But knowing what are the minimum necessities for life doesn't mean we would have people live on the minimum - that's just what you assume,"
No shithead I didn't assume anything. I pointed out that unless you mean "This person will die if they don't get this" you can't determine "needs". And you did mean that. So now you're saying that people will have more than the minimum, that means that what I said, that if you're going to have everyone live just over starvation, you're going to have to determine much more than "needs". And you agreed dumbfuck so don't call what I said a strawman.
Idiot: " because you really really love to build strawmen"
Appologise for that lie or not another comment of yours get's published.
Idiot: " and because you really really can't grasp that we're not commies :)"
You are commies.
Idiot: "I think i told you - the aim of the RBE is to make all people live healthy lives... "
I know, and it's a lie.
Idiot: "so finding out what the recommended intake of calories, certain amino acids, vitamins, minerals, etc... it's simply the scientific method applied in real life economics."
No dumbfuck it's not. What you propose has no measurement and I suspect you know it. That's why you've been lying and dodging and being an idiot.
Me: "And is that all you're going to determine? Nobody gets to eat what they actually want? You see dumbshit, this is what happens when you assume you can just determine what people should be given without a price system. You look like a dumbshit."
Idiot: "And again, this is what happens when you assume we'll have people living on rice. When did i ever say we'll prevent people from getting what they want? "
Hey fucktard you said that what people "needed" would be used to determine what they ate, and you agreed that "needed" means "they will die if they don't get this" so why are you NOW saying that's not how food is distributed?
"You were complaining earlier IN THIS POST that we assume infinite resources because of this exact reason, not forcibly preventing people from getting what they want. Try to be coherent when you attempt to make counterarguments."
Look dumbfuck, I'm arguing against your incoherent claims. You claimed that what people needed would determine what they would be given. Now you admit that isn't how it's going to be done. So fucktard, kindly appologise for this fucking lie. Again, no appology no more comments.
Me: "And how do you determine whether to put resources into fighting cancer or diabeties? Or rheumatoid arthritis?"Idiot: "I believe i can pretty much copypaste what i wrote in the first place: Do we have a great number of certain diseases in the population, and what can be done to reduce those?So we again SURVEY the population, see how many people there are afflicted with certain diseases. How many new cases are there in a time period. How debilitating is the disease. How could it be treated? Professionals assess all those factors, and focus on the greatest problems as the greatest priority."
But retard that doesn't tell me how you determine what to spend resources on. You have to decide whether 100,000 cases of arthritis are worth 5 cases of leukemia.
Me: "...If your system was interested in human wellbeing it would have a price mechanism of some sort."
Idiot: "Returning to the main question. WHY is it so important to have a monetary value assigned to everything? Value can be measured in different ways. "
No it really can't. You've tried to make that case and failed. You can't answer a single question honestly.
Idiot: "Sure, we would use what the monetary system taught us! Capitalism, all that - it was very important in human development! We won't just throw out all the numbers and speculate on what's more common: dirt or diamonds. But we will abandon those numbers and currencies we're used to today."
You can't compare values unless someone gives up one for another. Your system doesn't do that, and you admit it. So you can't compare values.
Idiot: "Alright, that would be all for now. I hope you'll read this with an open mind, and not just try to disagree with me. Disagreement makes sense if there is a genuine wish for understanding behind it. Later!"
Ok shithead, as of now you're blocked. When you apologize for your lies about me that's I've listed you can comment again.