Another series of lies from the liar.

Idiot: "You've dodged my question, why is it important to measure oppurtunity costs with a monetary cost?""
Because dumbshit, there is no other way to measure them, at least none that you or I know of.

Idiot :  "I've shown you examples of how we'd "measure" those costs in an RBE,"
No fucktard liar you haven't.
Idiot :  "And stop building strawmen. We don't assume infinite resources, we say that resources on the planet are finite in pretty much the first sentence when we describe a resource based economy to people."
Yes TVP does assume infinite resources, it has no mechanism for limiting anything liar fucktard and I didn't strawman.  The fact that you SAY something means nothing, because you're a liar. Me:  "So then you don't tell them what they're doing is consuming too much resources and you run out of resources. You lose."Idiot :  "Learn how to read, i said "there is no forcing people...", not that there's nothing at all suggesting people not to overconsume. "
Yeah dumbshit, that's my point.
Idiot :  "And another thing, people don't normally overconsume. Only when they feel the pressures of society and are conditioned to overconsume, when being ABLE to overconsume is a status symbol. All that is gone in a RBE."
Bullshit asshole, people have overconsumed when given the opportunity in pretty much every society and your claim that it will disappear in RBE is just your moronic wishful thinking.Me:   "No dumbshit, none of that will work because you don't have a system to assign values to resources."
Idiot:  "What?? You... you mean there will be no common sense, education, no wish to contribute, no interest in wellbeing, just because there is no monetary value attached to things? Wow. You just... no, nonono. Prove some of what you say, seriously. You make outrageous claims like this, you back your words up."
As I said "Common sense won't tell you that what you're consuming is worth less than what could be made out of it. Nor will education without a means of measuring value which you don't have.".
Look shithead it's not my job to repeat everything to you like you're a fucking dog that needs to have a command repeated 30 times before he gets it.
Me "Common sense won't tell you that what you're consuming is worth less than what could be made out of it. Nor will education without a means of measuring value which you don't have."Idiot :  "I've explained to you that we have a means to measure VALUE, just not a MONETARY value... Just return to the first question and show me why exactly you believe money is so important."Yes dumbshit, I get that.  I get everything you tell me the first time, because as retarded as it is, it's simple.  Common sense doesn't measure value.  You can't tell how much someone wants or needs something by "common sense".
Me:  "Learn to read dumbshit. A vote can't measure how much you want something. A vote simply says you want it, not that you want it enough to sacrifice something else."Idiot :  "Aaahh... an example then. You survey a group of people and ask them how much, on a scale of 1 to 10, they want something. Done. I think i was clear about this when i said there would be surveys."
Note that you just abandoned "common sense" as a measurement of value.  So dickhead would you like to admit that you were full of shit on that point?  If you don't in your next reply, don't make one.  I don't see why I should have to put up with your shit if you don't admit when you're wrong. In any case what stops someone setting all their priorites to 10 and getting everything they want?  What do these values even mean?  Does it mean that if you rate something as a 10 it's worth 2 5s?  How do you compare people's values if they don't vary their scores as much as each other.  Hey I've got an idea, everyone has a limited number their scores can total.  The system's success is determined by how much the total of everyone's scores is satisfied.  There's just one problem, that's money.

Me:  "Great and how are they told what they have to do without to get what they want? If they want, say a new bridge between the town of Ketchikan, Alaska and Gravina Island how are you going to tell them what they can't have if they build it? There is no mechanism for doing this in TVP. In fact TVP can be seen as being specifically designed to avoid the question.""A survey doesn't establish priorities, it establishes what people would do if it could be done without compromising any other goal. This information is worthless."Idiot:  "OK so if people want a new bridge to be built next, they will have to understand that the construction operators will be busy for a time, and that other projects will have to come after the one they think is a priority."
No dumbfuck, in RBE the builders don't decide one resources allocation.  They don't just decide that they'll use thousands of tonnes of materials, fuel, electricity on their own.  It's all allocated by computer remember?  God dumbfuck it's hard enough to explain economics without explaining your moronic system.


"The costs of such things in an RBE are measured just as the name suggests... in resources. And in time, obviously. The people can be given no more than there is to give, and no faster than those things can be produced."
There are millions of resources dumbfuck, you can't simply say "they're measured in resources", how do you compare using 1,000 tonnes of coal with 500 of wheat?  Or 10 megawatt hours versus 2 hours of the time of skilled programmer?  If you want to measure you need ONE UNIT you loathsome, retarded, loser shithead.  Learn the basics of fucking science before you talk again.

Me:   "No dipshit, asking people whether they want something doesn't measure value. All it measures is whether value is positive."Idiot:  "You must really think before you write. "

Fuck off, you're the one who is incapable of thinking.

Idiot:  But as i already said, you CAN measure value with surveys...

Yeah but you're a shithead liar.

"when is the last time you've had a company survey how satisfied you were with their services? Well, they had specific questions, like "how satisfied are you with our delivery time?" and you had many options to answer, like "not pleased at all" all the way up to "very pleased". Life isn't in black and white... and so aren't economies, and so isn't the RBE... too many people think there's just capitalism and communism, and that's it. Things aren't that simple... and that's why i understand why RBE's are difficult to grasp. But we'll get there.
Yeah dumbfuck that's not good enough.  What does "very satisfied" mean in terms of how much I'd give up to have something?  You don't know fucktard so stop pretending you do.  Businesses use HOW MUCH YOU'RE PREPARED TO PAY, to measure value, because it involves a choice and choice is the only way to compare values.  You can't compare values unless someone gives up one for another.

Me:  "No there isn't. Unless you mean literally needs like "This person will die if they don't get this.". But unless you're going to have everyone live just over starvation you're going to have to determine a lot more than that."Idiot;  "This is exactly what i mean! But knowing what are the minimum necessities for life doesn't mean we would have people live on the minimum - that's just what you assume,"

No shithead I didn't assume anything.  I pointed out that unless you mean "This person will die if they don't get this" you can't determine "needs".  And you did mean that.  So now you're saying that people will have more than the minimum, that means that what I said, that if you're going to have everyone live just over starvation, you're going to have to determine much more than "needs".  And you agreed dumbfuck so don't call what I said a strawman.


Idiot:  " because you really really love to build strawmen"
Appologise for that lie or not another comment of yours get's published.

Idiot:  " and because you really really can't grasp that we're not commies :)"

You are commies.

Idiot:  "I think i told you - the aim of the RBE is to make all people live healthy lives... "

I know, and it's a lie.

Idiot:  "so finding out what the recommended intake of calories, certain amino acids, vitamins, minerals, etc... it's simply the scientific method applied in real life economics."

No dumbfuck it's not.  What you propose has no measurement and I suspect you know it.  That's why you've been lying and dodging and being an idiot.
Me:   "And is that all you're going to determine? Nobody gets to eat what they actually want? You see dumbshit, this is what happens when you assume you can just determine what people should be given without a price system. You look like a dumbshit."
Idiot:  "And again, this is what happens when you assume we'll have people living on rice. When did i ever say we'll prevent people from getting what they want? "

Hey fucktard you said that what people "needed" would be used to determine what they ate, and you agreed that "needed" means "they will die if they don't get this" so why are you NOW saying that's not how food is distributed?

"You were complaining earlier IN THIS POST that we assume infinite resources because of this exact reason, not forcibly preventing people from getting what they want. Try to be coherent when you attempt to make counterarguments."
Look dumbfuck, I'm arguing against your incoherent claims.  You claimed that what people needed would determine what they would be given.  Now you admit that isn't how it's going to be done.  So fucktard, kindly appologise for this fucking lie.  Again, no appology no more comments.
Me:  "And how do you determine whether to put resources into fighting cancer or diabeties? Or rheumatoid arthritis?"Idiot:  "I believe i can pretty much copypaste what i wrote in the first place: Do we have a great number of certain diseases in the population, and what can be done to reduce those?So we again SURVEY the population, see how many people there are afflicted with certain diseases. How many new cases are there in a time period. How debilitating is the disease. How could it be treated? Professionals assess all those factors, and focus on the greatest problems as the greatest priority."

But retard that doesn't tell me how you determine what to spend resources on.  You have to decide whether 100,000 cases of arthritis are worth 5 cases of leukemia.

Me:   "...If your system was interested in human wellbeing it would have a price mechanism of some sort."
Idiot:  "Returning to the main question. WHY is it so important to have a monetary value assigned to everything? Value can be measured in different ways. "

No it really can't.  You've tried to make that case and failed.  You can't answer a single question honestly.

Idiot:  "Sure, we would use what the monetary system taught us! Capitalism, all that - it was very important in human development! We won't just throw out all the numbers and speculate on what's more common: dirt or diamonds. But we will abandon those numbers and currencies we're used to today."
You can't compare values unless someone gives up one for another.  Your system doesn't do that, and you admit it.  So you can't compare values.

Idiot:   "Alright, that would be all for now. I hope you'll read this with an open mind, and not just try to disagree with me. Disagreement makes sense if there is a genuine wish for understanding behind it. Later!"
Ok shithead, as of now you're blocked.  When you apologize for your lies about me that's I've listed you can comment again.

My further response to the anonymous cunt

I told you, my blog. Or yours or anywhere that is actually likely to be seen.  BTW my blog is working fine, you lying cunt.
Practically everything you say is a lie.  By the way, I'll keep swearing at you until you stop lying and wasting my time.  That is far more rude than calling you a waste of sperm that would best help society by getting cancer and taking part in a drug trial.

"I think i've explained how an RBE would determine values of materials.:
Well then you're an idiot aren't you?  What you've said is that you will collect a bunch of data and somehow put it all together to determine opportunity costs and value.
" It would be calculated out of two parameters: the available amount of the material, and the need for that material in society."
The first is a meaningless measure, what does it mean "the available amount of material"?  Do you mean all of the material that could possibly be extracted no matter what the cost in other materials?  Because that would be fucking stupid.  No you'd have to consider how much materials would be extractable given certain resource limitations which wouldn't be able to ennumerate because you don't have a measure of value.  To have a measure of value of the resources used to extract the material you'd have to have a measure of value of the material itself, which you can't have until you measure the value of the resources used to extract it.

The second measure is also meaningless, all it tells you is that a certain product has positive value not how much value it has.

" And if you can show me a flaw in our system, i'll be happy, because we try to learn from criticisms, not ignore them or get mad about them"
No you fucking won't because I already showed you a flaw in your system you ignorant cunt.

"-you said we have no mechanisms to determine value, right?":
Yes and I was right.  The shit you brought up is not a fucking mechanism.  It's the fucking specifications for what the mechanism has to do, with NO way to do it.

" I'll visit it if you stop with the namecalling, i believe i can at least expect that tiny bit of common courtesy"
No you fucking can't expect that tiny bit of common courtesy, fucktard.  What you can expect is for me to be pissed off that you wasted my time after I specifically told you that your shit was shit.  Now either get some real information or FUCK OFF.
" But until then, you're welcome to copy this exchange over there, if you're not too ashamed of your rude behaviour."
Thanks but I don't need your permission.  I'm not ashamed of my behaviour, although you should be ashamed of yours.  You wasted my time with lies fucktard.


"OK what public place would be good enough for you to have a conversation with me? You keep saying that i'm lying to you. I'd be happy to have people around us to verify i'm not lying, i'm just trying to explain what i know about TVP.

I think i've explained how an RBE would determine values of materials. It would be calculated out of two parameters: the available amount of the material, and the need for that material in society. We have no money, so there would be no monetary value associated with it. That is just a short answer, but ask a more detailed question and i'll answer that too, as good as i know! And if you can show me a flaw in our system, i'll be happy, because we try to learn from criticisms, not ignore them or get mad about them.

"That someone will collect data and smart people will use it decide what to do."
-a slight bit different. Most of that data collecting will be automated, and deciding what to do won't be arbitrary, it will also follow from what data we collect from society, what people need, want, what is needed to improve life. So in a late phase of a resource based economy, most of this will be automated, no human bias or corruption involved.

"There is NOTHING, NOTHING I said about TVP that isn't true."
-you said we have no mechanisms to determine value, right? I'm just saying that we do have it worked out, so if you're attacking a system that doesn't know how to find out values and costs, you're not criticising TVP.

Ooooh, you've got a blog? I'll visit it if you stop with the namecalling, i believe i can at least expect that tiny bit of common courtesy. But until then, you're welcome to copy this exchange over there, if you're not too ashamed of your rude behaviour.

PS: i tried to reach your blog page but it didn't work."

Anonymous247n tried to give me shit again.

So that little coward tried to accuse ME of running away, despite me putting up a complete refutation of his bullshit.

Here's what he said:
"I commented on your site, in the discussions section. So it's public. Now i've explained what i could, if you're just going to continue with your strawmen i won't bother with you anymore... but it will be you who retreated from this, you who would choose ignorance. You bothered with namecalling, why not bother asking questions normally? What are you so angry about anyway, have i been rude with you like that?

I'm giving you another chance. Ask your question about TVP, i'll explain. Here, in private messages, or on your page under discussions, where it's public. Your choice, talk to me or retreat."

And here's what I said in reply:
"I don't consider the comments section on a channel with NO original videos to be all that public. 

You've explained what? That someone will collect data and smart people will use it decide what to do. You haven't told me how TVP determines values. You can't determine the value of something from someone requesting it, only that the value is greater than zero. 

What strawmen did I use? There is NOTHING, NOTHING I said about TVP that isn't true. I gave you a chance to explain and you gave the standard TVP shit that tells me nothing. 

I'll give you a chance, fuckwit, either post a comment on my blog, credible.blogspot.com.au (where I will be posting this exchange) or on your own PUBLIC blog. I didn't retreat from anything you posted the same useless shit and I completely destroyed it. That's why you haven't actually looked at my post."


So it's up to him.  Actually man up or run away like the dog he is.

TVP is a fraud and here's more evidence.

So I got a private message from a dickhead who I specifically told not to give me any private messages.  The full text is available at the end of this post, but I'll be quoting the relevant part as I go along.

"The main topic. Our idea of an economic system has ways of determining value and cost. You may have been talking to people who weren't informed enough to KNOW how to explain this to you." 
Indeed, and that includes everyone who's every tried to explain it to me, but they're all sure it works, despite not being able to describe it.  What does that tell you?  Incidentally you're in that group too.

"They will just send you to "learn more", or give up on you too soon. Or like me, they just couldn't explain it within 500 characters. This is why a private message was necessary."
  No a PM was necessary because you didn't want to get caught out lying.  There are many other ways you can send a more than 500 character answer, for a start by multiple comments, blog posts, need I go on?

"So how do we determine values and costs in an RBE? Pretty much directly."
  And what does that mean?  How do you determine the value of something "directly"?  Value isn't a physical thing you can directly measure.
"How much of the material do we have, and how much do we need? Can we replace it with alternatives, can we recycle it, how does it decay, how does it replenish - all those parameters are taken into account. A system of input-output mechanisms finds those parameters out, of course with the help of resarchers and scientists all over the world."
  An answer that vague isn't an answer.  Saying you "all these parameters will be taken into account" tells me nothing.  For instance if a resource replenishs and another doesn't how do you take that into account when determining resource use?  If the unreplenishing resource is used you can't use it for something else in the future, how do you determine which use is greater, given they occur in different time frames?  Are you saying that you directly compare the use of every single combination of resources that could be used to produce one good and that you do that for every good?  If so the programmings going to be harder than doing EVERYTHING the economy currently does.  Basically you just said that the system finds the answers to the question I'm asking with the help of "scientists and researchers".  This is an assertion not an answer.  All you're saying is "Smart guys will figure it out, with data".  Fuck you.  This is not an answer and you're evil for pretending it is.

"But once a mechanism is understood - it can be automated."
  You can automatically determine what sort of plays people like?  You're talking serious AI here.

"So what kinds of materials am i talking about? Copper, iron, wood, water, gold, natural diamonds - whatever it is, its available amounts are constantly tracked. The need for those materials is also tracked - what do we need them for, how much and at what frequency? How fast does the material replenish - wood can be regrown, minerals can't be. How plentiful is the material on our planet? There's less gold there than iron. And how much of the material is needed?"
  Did you just assume that the only relevant resource is natural resources?  Because if you did you're so fucking stupid it's unbelievable.  There is capital and labor too you moron.
  But let's restrict the criticism to how your system will handle NATURAL resource use, because that's both the easiest resource use to handle and the least critical to manage correctly.  Societies with limited natural resource do better than socieites with limited labor resources or capital.  How much of a particular natural resource exists in the world is a minor part of what you need to know about it.  If a billion tonnes of copper exist 15 km deep what does that mean for your system?  Well it means if you expend enough resources you can access that copper.  But which resources?  Well your technicians could calculate thousands of combinations of resources you could use to access it.  Which one you should use depends on how valuable each resource used is, but to know that you have to complete your moronic inventory and compare the supply of these resources with how much will be used.  But this is part of both the supply of copper and how much of other resources will be used, so you can't know. The only way to know would be to list every single possible way to get the copper, liste every single possible way to get the resources to get the copper, then compare every one of these combinations to every single other possible combination of resources to do something else. It can't be done, particularly when we consider the value problem.

"This is a big question - how does our system find out what it needs to run, how does it track the people's needs and wants. In very short, the gathering and measuring systems are cybernated - integrated - with systems that track needs and consumption. You need a new oven? You order a new one, or pick it up at a distribution center - THAT's the input, and every person on the planet creates it all the time while they consume. And the systems, like a living being's nervous system, communicate with each other in real time, constantly making sure that supply meets demand."

How are needs tracked?  I know how wants are tracked but how do you determine what is needed and what would just be nice to have?  This is a critical question, unless you're assuming you can supply even the most trivial want without compromising any other need or want you need to quantify value.  Simply saying that I want a new oven doesn't tell you how much I want it, let alone that I "need" it, however that is defined.  There is no way in TVP to distinguish between a request that really matters to the person and will give great value and a request that is not important and will not give great value.  Your system doesn't determine supply or demand, in the economic sense.  It determines what people want, but not how much they're prepared to give up to get it.  It determines what is produced but not the value of what could have been produced if it hadn't been.  TVP has to decide which requests to grant, or it's just a fairy tale.  If it's a fairy tale and it's being presented as a real solution that's evil.

So now let's deal with the morality directly.  You claim " I HAD MY DOUBTS about the movement! But it did convince me that its goals are very pure and good.".  What convinced you?  That they keep saying they're goals are pure and good?  Lot's of people say that.  The communists said that.  TVP is another bunch of scientistic assholes who claim that private property needs to be abolished and everything tracked by a central mechanism.  If they are different from communists in a fundamental way I don't see it.  It's communism plus robots as Stef said.  What makes me think they're evil is that they don't tell me how they would handle opportunity costs despite repeated requests.  Considering this is something that needs to be determined before anyone could rationally support their system it's a dead giveaway that their real system is evil.  If they were really intent on what they claimed they would openly publish their opportunity costs and values system not lie about it.  And they have been lying, as have you.  What they describe as a system is not a system, it's the requirements for one.  Saying "Smart men will figure it out with data" is not an answer and nobody sane would regard it as one.  They are being insincere, and that is only necessary to protect evil.  Note that I'm including you here as one of the evil ones.
 Now fuck off you little shithead or I'll REALLY humilitate you by going into the capital/labor problems your system has.


Here is the full text of his message.
"Hello!

I've decided to go out of my way and send YOU a private message :)  (edit - looks like youtube changed some things, so this will be sort of public - even better)  I guess as the one representing the minority, and all this time claiming moral high ground, i should reach out. And since i had some time, i've decided to go ahead and write you. Maybe i'll explain something to you about the venus project and resource based economies that you didn't know yet. And maybe you'll explain to me, what that moral hazard of our movement is supposed to be.

I will be honest, i understand our movement pretty well. I've debated philosophers, engineers, young and old about it. I haven't been with it from the beginning, but i've discovered it quite early, when the second zeitgeist movie was made. I HAD MY DOUBTS about the movement! But it did convince me that its goals are very pure and good. I'll also say this, i have my disagreements with Jacque Fresco, so i consider myself more a zeitgeister than a venus projecter, in brief, we seem to be a bit more democratic with our ideas. But the same broad principles apply to TZM and TVP. So i'm pretty convinced that we're the "good guys" :)  And i would be very interested if you could explain what's morally bad about our movement, or what Stefan thinks is morally bad. I honestly don't know. I've reached dead-ends with people concerning the plausibility of our plans, but very rarely has it ended with people just concluding that we're "evil" or "bad" - it mostly happens from people who very stubbornly think we're the new communists. But most people who take at least a bit of time will see, we're very different. So explain if you wish, what's morally bad about our ideas. I think we're morally probably a bit above most other similar movements, but that's just my opinion!

The main topic. Our idea of an economic system has ways of determining value and cost. You may have been talking to people who weren't informed enough to KNOW how to explain this to you. They will just send you to "learn more", or give up on you too soon. Or like me, they just couldn't explain it within 500 characters. This is why a private message was necessary.

So how do we determine values and costs in an RBE? Pretty much directly. How much of the material do we have, and how much do we need? Can we replace it with alternatives, can we recycle it, how does it decay, how does it replenish - all those parameters are taken into account. A system of input-output mechanisms finds those parameters out, of course with the help of resarchers and scientists all over the world. But once a mechanism is understood - it can be automated. So what kinds of materials am i talking about? Copper, iron, wood, water, gold, natural diamonds - whatever it is, its available amounts are constantly tracked. The need for those materials is also tracked - what do we need them for, how much and at what frequency? How fast does the material replenish - wood can be regrown, minerals can't be. How plentiful is the material on our planet? There's less gold there than iron. And how much of the material is needed? This is a big question - how does our system find out what it needs to run, how does it track the people's needs and wants. In very short, the gathering and measuring systems are cybernated - integrated - with systems that track needs and consumption. You need a new oven? You order a new one, or pick it up at a distribution center - THAT's the input, and every person on the planet creates it all the time while they consume. And the systems, like a living being's nervous system, communicate with each other in real time, constantly making sure that supply meets demand.

I guess you could have many sub-questions, and i'd be glad to answer them. Go in detail, ask specifics, i'm sure i can be of help. Just show me that you're really interested in this, and not just enjoying the bashing of those who think too much out of the box ;)  I really enjoy Stefan's shows and agree... i think 95% of the time with him, i strongly believe we should join forces and work together toward a better future, instead of arguing. But for that, understanding needs to be made. Stefan and Peter failed at that, unfortunately... so let us be better, what do you say?
Looking forward to your reply - peace"

The Paul Armstrong Problem or staging a revolt against boring work.

Those familiar with the Austrian School of economics will remember the Economic Calculation Problem, how to decide what to produce with what resources.  While this is usually presented as a problem of what goods are best for consumers there is another problem, how people would prefer to use their resources, particularly their labor. 

For example Paul Armstrong was a high level health administrator in the New South Wales governement.  He was good, so good other sections of the NSW health administration headhunted him for his skills in getting diverse people to work together.  His high pay represented the benefits others saw in his organisation and people skills (and the lack of competing people who could provide the same skills for less of course). In other words his effort was thought to be able to provide the same or better results than large amounts of capital, land and other people's labor.  So why then did he quit and become an actor, a profession notorious for not being financially stable?  Put simply his valuation of doing the job he wanted to do had to be compared to other people's valuation of doing the job they wanted him to do.  This fundamental problem of how to balance the preferences of those who want services with the preferences of those who want to provide them I call "The Paul Armstrong problem".  It is a subset of the Economic Calculation Problem and I want to determine if can be solved without prices or without a free market*. 

Obviously if there is an opportunity to do a job that is highly valued by others but highly disvalued by the person doing it then someone has to make a decision.  Whose desire predominate?  Since the abolition of slavery nobody can be coerced into doing a particular job if they haven't agreed to do it.  The only exception is "National Service" that is to say "Government Slavery" i.e. conscription or conscription-like institutions.  So given that people can veto what other people think they should do how do we persuade them to do what would suit us?

Several methods suggest themselves.  Social pressure/guilt can work in some cases, but it isn't the sort of thing that can or should be applied on societal scales.  Attempting to do so would result in those with the least active consciences benefitting most and those with the most active getting the shaft.  This in the long run is not good.  It also encourages people to be bad at unpopular jobs (or pretend to be) which is not what we want.  In any case it does not really measure the cost/benefit of a particular person doing a job.  The disutility of a person doing a job (i.e. how much he would prefer not to do it, for whatever reasons) is a cost of them doing a job.  If it is not expressed in a monetary form, it's still a cost.  There might be people who would do the job almost as well and dislike it much less, thus having almost as much of a benefit and much more of a cost.  This is not measurable using social pressure.

Consciption, which is fundamentally no different from slavery with a paycheck could also be tried, but it suffers from a central defect.  Under slavery there is no incentive to actually do a good job.  Under selective slavery, where only those who seem good at the job are enslaved, there is even less incentive.  The worse job you do, the sooner people stop forcing you to do it.  Any of you guys out there used the "Drop a few plates and get out of drying up" trick?  Same deal, society wide.  It also doesn't allow cost/benefit analysis in the same way social pressure did not.

The current solution is some form of recompense.  That is provision of more goods and services in return for the more valuable labor.  Labor can be more valuable because there are a limited number of people who can do it, because those who can do it can do other valuable labor or because nobody wants to do it.  With some jobs the value difference between them being done well and not as well is very great.  For instance the aforementioned Mr. Armstrong had a job that involved various different health services, including drug & alcohol, pyschiatric hospitals, regular hospitals etc. working together.  Anyone could try to do that, but doing it well meant high value in terms of better patient outcomes, less time shuttling them around, less bureacratic effort and more time actually spent helping patients etc.  So his labor was highly valued in terms of goods and services.  It was cheaper to provide him with large amounts of goods and services (via the medium of a paycheck since double coincidence of wants is a thing) than to try and accomplish goals without using his labor.  In other words his labor substituted for large amounts of capital and other people's labor.

So could people be given recompense without prices?  Fundamentally no.  All that would happen is a de facto barter system where, for instance, doing a particular job gets you particular packages of goods and services and you trade them for the goods and services you want.  This in effect gives you a price system but with the inefficiencies of a barter system.  While it is possible to provide part recompense in goods and services rather than money (e.g. free housing for some workers, especially those who need to be a particular place) that is only a modification to the idea of prices.  For some organisations in some cases it is cheaper to provide a benefit by providing a good or service rather than the cash necessary to provide an equivalent value to the worker.  For instance mining companies provide free accommodation in remote areas to many workers.  This is cheaper than providing the worker money which he then uses to rent accomodation which would be difficult if the company hadn't built said accommodation.  


*  Yes his job wasn't in the free market, but it was subject to competition from other employers who were in the free market and so had some free market discipline imposed.